I need to think on this: “There is a problem with sinning (sinning as in failing to have your eyes on the highest). All sinning causes time to speed up. This makes perfect sense, as material reality, which is lower on the ontological hierarchy, changes faster because it is less anchored in the fundamental reality. Not only does time speed up, but material reality also extends. A reality that is less aligned to God.”
What I'd like to add. All Church Fathers were neoplatonists, so to understand the Bible from this ontology (how to world lays itself out), is how the Church Fathers most likely understood it (with some small differences of course)
There are two main differences: firstly the difference of the "neoplatonist Trinity" (The One, the Nous or Divine Mind and the World Woul) and the Christian Trinity (in Christianity, it seems like the three are equal, while sharing a divine essence). Secondly between how matter can be turned into Good (this is my critique of Plato).
Then secondly, I recommend the neoplatonists: Proclus - Elements of Theology (shorter work) /Plotinus - Enneads (long work, but very clear). This should get you started. Also look up diagrams of the systems they describe to visualise it
Just received the Enneads and Elements of Theology as Father’s Day gifts!! Very excited to start getting into them after I finish The Republic (which might be my favorite book of all time). Other than google and diagrams any recommendations to pair it with? Wouldn’t mind something particularly Christian commentaries on them if they exist.
Besides this, I think neoplatonist systems are quite "easy" to get. I just jump straight into the texts. And maybe I advise you to go through Plato's dialogues (http://n1.intelibility.com/ime/lyceum/?p=lemma&id=868&lang=2), at the bottom of this side. Plato and Plotinus go pretty well together
It is important to keep in mind all neoplatonist systems differ little.
Thank you so much! I admit I am a Protestant myself somewhat stuck in nondenominationalism, so when you say Protestants run into the pitfall of throwing the ladder to God out (By saying all these spiritual beings are demonic at worst or unnecessary at best) could you elaborate on that a bit more? I’m fascinated.
Well, all in reality is Good. It is the gift of God. All is a symbol of God. Most I've learnt here is learnt from St Dionysius the Areopagite (also a neoplatonist) (and learning from other church fathers in general).
This is because all is ultimately a pointer to God. Protestants for example do not acknowledge the reality of the Saints (well most later denominations). It's demon worship according to them (or Mary). I do think this vision of reality is hurtful.
Mary, according to my view, is not God, but she is the highest of humans. She is the purest form of receptivity we do have, and thus serves as an example of how we could invite Jesus Christ, Logos in our life. In this case, protestants remove this stepping ladder from Mary up to God. Catholics (and Orthodox) would say: Ad Jesum Per Mariam - "To Jesus through Mary" in Latin. Meaning she makes it easier to see the reality of Christ as it is.
Through removing Mary or the Saints, it makes it much more difficult to see what is higher. They are very necessary!
But I don't even have to go as far. Even a stone could for example symbolise God. The stone is solid and sturdy, we build houses with it. This is a symbol of Gods stability and the fact that we can support on Him. A stone could also symbolise the rock on which we bind our boat. (the boat being the tides of our tumultuous life and the rock being the support, a kind of steadiness). As with everything in Creation.
I believe the ultimate goal is to see the Divine manifested in reality. He is present at each level of reality. This is not idolatry (as we don't worship the stone). Idolatry is worshipping the symbol instead of what is signified. All worship lower than the One Who is signified is idolatry.
Awesome.
I need to think on this: “There is a problem with sinning (sinning as in failing to have your eyes on the highest). All sinning causes time to speed up. This makes perfect sense, as material reality, which is lower on the ontological hierarchy, changes faster because it is less anchored in the fundamental reality. Not only does time speed up, but material reality also extends. A reality that is less aligned to God.”
Definitely food for thought.
Indeed, much is connected to this.
First of all, if you focus lower (on the non-eternal world), things change more rapidly. They are the manifestations of the heavenly patterns.
Also, if people focus less on God, and more on the lower things, then from this technology comes. This idea can be worked out infinitely.
This was great!
Much appreciated!
I’ve not read much on this subject, anything to recommend at the laymen’s level?
What I'd like to add. All Church Fathers were neoplatonists, so to understand the Bible from this ontology (how to world lays itself out), is how the Church Fathers most likely understood it (with some small differences of course)
There are two main differences: firstly the difference of the "neoplatonist Trinity" (The One, the Nous or Divine Mind and the World Woul) and the Christian Trinity (in Christianity, it seems like the three are equal, while sharing a divine essence). Secondly between how matter can be turned into Good (this is my critique of Plato).
This is a great introduction: gets all the essence right.
https://nuclearaesthetics.blogspot.com/2020/09/platonic-causality-primer-1st-ed.html
Then secondly, I recommend the neoplatonists: Proclus - Elements of Theology (shorter work) /Plotinus - Enneads (long work, but very clear). This should get you started. Also look up diagrams of the systems they describe to visualise it
Just received the Enneads and Elements of Theology as Father’s Day gifts!! Very excited to start getting into them after I finish The Republic (which might be my favorite book of all time). Other than google and diagrams any recommendations to pair it with? Wouldn’t mind something particularly Christian commentaries on them if they exist.
I've heard many good things about this book: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Radek-Chlup/dp/131662885X/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1TDUJQRK8H834&keywords=Proklus&qid=1655708652&sprefix=proclus+%2Caps%2C123&sr=8-3.
Besides this, I think neoplatonist systems are quite "easy" to get. I just jump straight into the texts. And maybe I advise you to go through Plato's dialogues (http://n1.intelibility.com/ime/lyceum/?p=lemma&id=868&lang=2), at the bottom of this side. Plato and Plotinus go pretty well together
It is important to keep in mind all neoplatonist systems differ little.
You absolutely have. Thank you for taking them time to explain further, I truly appreciate it!
Thank you so much! I admit I am a Protestant myself somewhat stuck in nondenominationalism, so when you say Protestants run into the pitfall of throwing the ladder to God out (By saying all these spiritual beings are demonic at worst or unnecessary at best) could you elaborate on that a bit more? I’m fascinated.
Well, all in reality is Good. It is the gift of God. All is a symbol of God. Most I've learnt here is learnt from St Dionysius the Areopagite (also a neoplatonist) (and learning from other church fathers in general).
This is because all is ultimately a pointer to God. Protestants for example do not acknowledge the reality of the Saints (well most later denominations). It's demon worship according to them (or Mary). I do think this vision of reality is hurtful.
Mary, according to my view, is not God, but she is the highest of humans. She is the purest form of receptivity we do have, and thus serves as an example of how we could invite Jesus Christ, Logos in our life. In this case, protestants remove this stepping ladder from Mary up to God. Catholics (and Orthodox) would say: Ad Jesum Per Mariam - "To Jesus through Mary" in Latin. Meaning she makes it easier to see the reality of Christ as it is.
Through removing Mary or the Saints, it makes it much more difficult to see what is higher. They are very necessary!
But I don't even have to go as far. Even a stone could for example symbolise God. The stone is solid and sturdy, we build houses with it. This is a symbol of Gods stability and the fact that we can support on Him. A stone could also symbolise the rock on which we bind our boat. (the boat being the tides of our tumultuous life and the rock being the support, a kind of steadiness). As with everything in Creation.
I believe the ultimate goal is to see the Divine manifested in reality. He is present at each level of reality. This is not idolatry (as we don't worship the stone). Idolatry is worshipping the symbol instead of what is signified. All worship lower than the One Who is signified is idolatry.
I hope I have clarified myself a bit more.